MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
The head of the Smithsonian Institution, Lonnie G. Bunch III, says he will retire at the end of the year.
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
Bunch has spent nearly four decades with the Smithsonian, first as a curator, then as the head of the National Museum of African American History and Culture. He took over the top position at the Smithsonian in 2019 and said yesterday he's going to step down. It follows more than a year of criticism from President Trump and his administration about the Smithsonian, who have called the institution radical and divisive.
MARTIN: NPR's Andrew Limbong is covering this. Good morning, Andrew.
ANDREW LIMBONG, BYLINE: Morning, Michel.
MARTIN: So why is Bunch retiring now?
LIMBONG: Well, to hear him tell it, it's just time. Here's what he told NPR in an interview last night when asked why now?
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
LONNIE G BUNCH III: Because I'm old as dirt.
(LAUGHTER)
BUNCH: The reality is that after 38 years, I've been able to accomplish so much. I've learned so much. I've built such great relationships. And now I want to make sure that I have time to write, to think, but really to bore my grandkids to death, and now's the moment to do it.
LIMBONG: There's a lot he's not saying there, especially when you take into account all the recent attacks President Trump and his administration have levied against the Smithsonian, but Bunch has denied any insinuation that his leaving had to do with pressures from the president.
MARTIN: Say more about those attacks, if you would, for people who haven't been following this.
LIMBONG: Yeah. The president and his administration have been trying to paint the Smithsonian as radical activists, right? In 2025, Trump issued an executive order criticizing exhibits and programs that, quote, "degrade shared American values." For example, the EO singled out an art exhibit about the history of sculpture and racism in America. Jump ahead to July of this year, the administration issued a long report criticizing the National Museum of American History for moving towards, quote, "extreme political activism." And last month, the Department of the Interior said that the executive departments can't support the Smithsonian under the current leadership.
Like I said, Bunch has denied, you know, that his retirement has anything to do with these criticisms, but his statement announcing the retirement said that he was leaving with mixed emotions.
MARTIN: Now, Bunch started out as a curator at Air and Space. He went to move on to American History - the National Museum of American History and Culture. But in his current role, he's in charge of all of the Smithsonian's museums, libraries, research centers, the National Zoo.
LIMBONG: Yeah.
MARTIN: Can you just say a little bit about what he's accomplished?
LIMBONG: I mean, two pandas came to the National Zoo under his tenure. Remember that? That was a big deal (laughter). He got the ball rolling on two new history museums, one focused on women's history and another on the history of the American Latino. But he said that, you know, one of the big goals of his role as head of the Smithsonian was to help Americans embrace ambiguity and see America as a really complicated place.
MARTIN: And say more about him.
LIMBONG: Yeah. Well, Michel, you know, you've interviewed him tons of times, right? He's got this breadth of knowledge about history, right? Actually, on top of him being the first African American to lead the Smithsonian, he was the first historian to do so. You know, you ran through his career, first as a curator, but then in '05, he became the founding director of the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture, and this is before that museum even had a building, right? And so he spent, like, more than a decade thinking about that museum's collection, what the physical manifestation of African American history would look and feel like - the basic, like, nuts and bolts of constructing a building - until it opened to the public in 2016.
MARTIN: One of the most visited museums in the world. And, Andrew, remember when the museum opened? The demand for tickets were so high, I think the website broke.
LIMBONG: Oh, yeah. Like, for a while, it was the place to go in D.C., which actually took Bunch by surprise. Here's what he told NPR a year after the museum opened.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR CONTENT)
BUNCH: I didn't expect it to become a pilgrimage site so soon. You know, we thought we'd get 4,000 people a day. We're getting six, seven, 8,000 a day. I didn't expect that.
LIMBONG: And so, you know, Michel, I think whatever the future holds for him or for the Smithsonian, that building will be his lasting legacy.
MARTIN: That is NPR's Andrew Limbong. Andrew, thank you.
LIMBONG: Thanks, Michel. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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