TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. Before my guest, Lisa Kudrow, was famous, back when she was doing improv, she created a character, an actress determined to stay in show business no matter what it cost her. That character eventually became Valerie Cherish, the relentlessly optimistic actress who has been chasing her comeback since 2005. Here she is in the show's first season, trying to get the title of her new reality show just right.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE COMEBACK")
LISA KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) This is my comeback. All right. Now I'm going to - let me take that again. OK. So this is my come - Jane, I'm sorry. The camera keeps moving in and out. Is that...
LAURA SILVERMAN: (As Jane Benson) It's always going to be moving. Just keep going.
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) No, yeah. Oh, I know. I know. It's just - I didn't know if I should wait for it to settle or - that's right. Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah, that's right. This one's always going to be moving 'cause that one is stationary. Got it. OK. Here we go. This is my comeback. You know, I want to do another.
(LAUGHTER)
MOSLEY: That's Valerie at the beginning of a comeback she'll spend the next 21 years trying to pull off. Kudrow developed Valerie for HBO with writer and director Michael Patrick King, building a character who wants to be back on television so badly that she will endure almost anything - demotions, humiliations and writers half her age who barely hide what they think of her. Now in the show's final season, Valerie finally gets what she has been chasing - the lead in a network sitcom. The catch - AI is writing the scripts.
The role has Kudrow up for two Emmys this year, one for acting and one for writing. It's the latest chapter in a career that includes t10 seasons as Phoebe on "Friends," whose finale drew more than 50 million viewers. She won her first Emmy for that role in 1998. Her credits run long. So here are just a few. "Web Therapy," the improvised comedy she co-created, playing a therapist who conducts very short sessions online, "Who Do You Think You Are?" the genealogy series she executive produced for 11 seasons, and "Romy And Michele's High School Reunion," a sequel announced earlier this summer. And, Lisa Kudrow, welcome back to FRESH AIR.
KUDROW: Hi. Thank you. Nice to be back.
MOSLEY: Yes. You and Michael have this way of catching Hollywood just at moments of really big change. And we saw that throughout every season of "The Comeback" over the last 21 years. And Valerie is finally getting what she wants for this particular season.
KUDROW: Yeah.
MOSLEY: She's got her own sitcom. She is the lead, but it is written by AI.
KUDROW: Right.
MOSLEY: Tell me why you all felt like this was the perfect situation for Valerie to be in. How did you all even come to this?
KUDROW: The premise alone offers so many layers and areas to explore. And, you know, there's a threat that everyone's responding to. And Valerie's the one who's, OK, no problem. Because there'll be a camera on me, right? - you know.
MOSLEY: That's so interesting - right? - because the first season, the threat was reality television. And then the second season, it was really, like, the docudrama-type series thing.
KUDROW: Right - premium cable, half hour, single camera, no jokes.
MOSLEY: Yeah. She's like a mixture of a lot of different people. It's someone that you came up with very early in your career. How did you come up with the idea?
KUDROW: Well, she was nowhere near as fleshed out. In the Groundlings, I did a character monologue called Your Favorite Actress On A Talk Show.
MOSLEY: And Groundlings is the improv theater group here in Los Angeles.
KUDROW: That's right. And so it was just that one character monologue, and she's on a talk show. She's on Johnny Carson, who was still...
MOSLEY: The host of "The Tonight Show."
KUDROW: ...Johnny Carson. And she hadn't been on in a long time. And it's just watching her try to spin everything and act like she's in control, and then just the phoniness. That's the one thing that made me laugh about her on that - in that monologue that made me laugh, when she looks at the audience, and she's saying, you know, the environment is real important to me, you know, so important. It really should be - and looks out at the audience and just says, people, please, please save the planet as a favor to me. I'll love you for it. You know? 'Cause you - I would see actors sort of acting like, well, everyone will do what I say.
MOSLEY: She also - especially in the first season, she almost felt delusional. No one knew what - how to take her. She seemed oblivious to how other people reacted to her.
KUDROW: Right.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: Exactly. Delusional is the word. That's how I saw her, too, and that's what made me laugh. And her immediate spin on things. You know, if anyone was insulting, she'd spin it, like, having a bad day, I guess.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: You know, like...
MOSLEY: Right.
KUDROW: ...Not for me to worry about. And the thing is, after we did that, and I would run into people - actors and writers and people who, you know, watched the show and said, that must have been so hard to play that role. I mean, so painful. And I thought, what? Blink, blink. No.
MOSLEY: It wasn't pain for you.
KUDROW: What pain?
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: And then went, why wasn't it painful? Oh, because she spun it and believed the spin. It wasn't just spin. She reframed the reality of it.
MOSLEY: There's something that she says in this third season. One of her producers says, you know, it was really hard to watch you be humiliated over many, many years. And she says, well, you can't be humiliated if you don't allow - something about like...
KUDROW: You have to agree...
MOSLEY: You have to agree...
KUDROW: ...To be humiliated.
MOSLEY: ...To be humiliated.
KUDROW: And I never signed up for that.
MOSLEY: Right. Yes. So in the end, she kind of wasn't delusional.
KUDROW: Right. We - that - we knew that was the end of the Valerie Cherish story kind of early on when we were writing this third season. And we knew the third season would be the end.
MOSLEY: How come?
KUDROW: 'Cause then it's a trilogy. And a show that was canceled after the first season...
MOSLEY: HBO canceled it.
KUDROW: Yeah. And then it's brought back. And every 10 years, we're sort of chronicling this business. So it felt like now it's a trilogy. It's a complete piece. And we went from cancellation to getting to complete an entire story spanning 20 years.
MOSLEY: So many of the actors return. And there's something really comforting about seeing all of these people through time over 21 years. You've got Laura Silverman as Jane...
KUDROW: Yes.
MOSLEY: ...The documentarian, who's been pointing the camera at Valerie since 2005, and Damian Young as Mark, who's your husband, even Lance Barber, as Paulie G...
KUDROW: Yeah.
MOSLEY: ...Who is the writer who made her life hell.
KUDROW: Right.
MOSLEY: What was it like returning to each other in that way, almost like a school reunion, it seems like?
KUDROW: Yeah. It's thrilling. It's thrilling every time. And you know how talented these people are. You know how good they are. You know how much they know these characters, too. So you just can't wait to see what they're going to do. You know.
MOSLEY: I want to play a clip from this third season. In this scene, Valerie has finally gotten the network sitcom she's always wanted, and she's the lead, and the show is called "How's That?!" And the secret has just come out, though, that - her fellow cast members are learning that the writers on the show are actually AI, and the reactions vary. So here you are with the actors who are your castmates Tim Bagley, Brittany O'Grady, Barry Henley, Zane Phillips and Matt Cook, who speaks first. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE COMEBACK")
MATT COOK: (As PDP) Come on, everyone - everyone - hates AI. I didn't sign up to be on an AI-written show.
BRITTANY O'GRADY: (As Gabrielle) Yeah. Should we be calling our agents?
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) Please don't. Please don't. You know, if this gets out and studio doesn't want it to, then I don't know. They could pull the plug on the whole thing.
O'GRADY: (As Gabrielle) No.
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) This information is top secret and even had to sign an NDA.
BARRY SHABAKA HENLEY: (As Walter) What's the big deal?
COOK: (AS PDP) Uh.
TIM BAGLEY: (As Frank Flynn) You can't do a show without writers.
ZANE PHILLIPS: (As Dean) And we're not. We have Al.
O'GRADY: (As Gabrielle) Al is AI, though.
BAGLEY: (As Frank Flynn) Al's a bot?
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) Yeah. Well...
PHILLIPS: (As Dean) Is that why no one would ever give me his contact information?
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) Well, OK, guys, listen, OK? We're the first, and the show's tested well. So I think we just take the material that you are given, bot or not, funny or not funny, and do everything you can to make it great, alright? We're actors. That's what we do, right?
PHILLIPS: (As Dean) That's right. It's our job to make things funnier.
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) Uh-huh.
PHILLIPS: (As Dean) But a lot of times, when I do that, the writers get angry if I change a word.
COOK: (As PDP) So many times, I've made the writing so much better than it was. I've been told that.
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) Yeah.
PHILLIPS: (As Dean) And then I have to go back and do the words the way that they wrote it, and the audience doesn't laugh, and they look at me like I'm not funny. I knew the joke wasn't funny the whole week, but I can't say that.
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) Right.
PHILLIPS: (As Dean) Right?
O'GRADY: (As Gabrielle) It's like when they give me a line that's not funny, they say, Gabrielle, do it sexier.
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) Oh.
COOK: (As PDP) That's probably why it's been so fun here. It turns out there are no writers. It's just us.
PHILLIPS: (As Dean) Yeah, I've been enjoying this.
KUDROW: (As Valerie Cherish) Yeah.
PHILLIPS: (As Dean) You know, I don't think I ever liked a writer.
KUDROW: (Laughter) Oh, I love that scene so much.
MOSLEY: I know. You know, it's so funny. It's like this show is just as much about the writers as it is about Valerie.
KUDROW: Very much. Yes. But what I love about that scene is just, like, the anatomy of a mob, you know? That it starts with, what? It's AI? You lied to us? This is a betrayal. We're doing this without writers. That's not right. And then once it's, like, well, if you say something, they might take the whole thing away. Oh, no.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: Like, don't want that. And then, you know, yeah, you know what? I don't like writers. And it's just, like, complete 180. That's what human beings do, I think.
MOSLEY: I also feel like it might be a little bit true, like, the gripes that actors have with writers.
KUDROW: Yes, how much, you know, they are sitting on the resentment that they have 'cause they're not really allowed to have it on a set, you know, 'cause the writers, the show-runners are in charge of a sitcom, for sure. So they have always had to just swallow it and sit on it, and then the second they have an ounce of permission. It's, yeah, I don't think I've ever liked a writer. Yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah. Have you felt that before in your career?
KUDROW: Well, sometimes, but I think - here's the thing. They're casting it for someone who is going to make the most out of the writing. And then it becomes this kind of a dialogue without an actual dialogue about here's what we wrote. Here's what you did with it. So we have that in mind as we continue writing, and it just evolves into, like, finding the actor's voice with the writer's voice together. It's a collaboration. And that's when it works, I think, the best.
MOSLEY: There are several moments in this last season that feel very close to home. Like, it feels uncomfortable because we just don't know where we're going yet with AI. And the same way in the first season, we didn't really know where we were going to go with reality TV.
KUDROW: Right. Everyone thought it was an extinction event, reality TV. And entertainment just expanded to include reality. It didn't destroy scripted television. It really didn't. You know, the other thing is that if you also look at 2005, there were sitcoms, 22 episodes, and every network had them, multi-camera sitcoms. And you need a lot of writers. Like between 10 and 15 writers in a writers' room for those. By the time we did Season 2, there were way fewer multi-camera shows, and there were a lot of single-camera comedies. So now you don't need 12 writers. You need six to 10, maybe, or less. So it's cut in half. Ten years later, we're doing this, and what we're saying with AI is you need one writer.
MOSLEY: AI. Yeah.
My guest is Lisa Kudrow. She's nominated for two Emmy Awards for the third and final season of the HBO comedy "The Comeback," which she co-created. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF LULLATONE'S "ALL THE OPTIMISM OF EARLY JANUARY")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR, and today, I'm talking with Lisa Kudrow. She's up for two Emmys for the final season of "The Comeback" for lead actress in a comedy and for writing. The HBO series she co-created and stars in as Valerie Cherish, an actress who keeps trying to get her career back. It's her third acting nomination for the role across three seasons in 21 years. Kudrow won an Emmy in 1998 for playing Phoebe on "Friends."
You're the youngest of three siblings. You grew up in a suburb of LA, the San Fernando Valley, Tarzana. What was your place in the house?
KUDROW: My place?
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: As the youngest?
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: Usually, like, the least competent person, right? I mean, that's the way it is. I'm the youngest by six in eight years, you know? So I was sort of an only child at times 'cause they're out and away. And it's the '70s, also. So it was different, right? It was, yeah, you'll be fine. Alright. Do whatever you want. I ate, you know, baked M&Ms and doritos for breakfast on the weekends. And that was great (laughter).
MOSLEY: Conan O'Brien, who's your longtime friend, you all met very early in your careers when you were just starting out here in Los Angeles, he said when you were on his show, he described you as, quote, "someone with a Victorian sense of morality"...
KUDROW: (Laughter).
MOSLEY: ...Which I thought was a really interesting way to describe someone.
KUDROW: And accurate.
MOSLEY: Well, first off, what does that mean?
(LAUGHTER)
KUDROW: You know, yes, I was very much like that. And still? Is that what he was saying? Maybe. But that felt like the safest way to be.
MOSLEY: Did you ever have a wild streak growing up?
KUDROW: No.
MOSLEY: No?
KUDROW: No.
MOSLEY: You were pretty straight-laced all the way through.
KUDROW: I think so. But, you know, I was funny, but not a class clown because they were annoying. They got in the way of the lessons...
MOSLEY: Right. And your morality...
KUDROW: ...During the day.
MOSLEY: ...Was like, we need to be good students, quiet in class.
KUDROW: Yes. I like structure.
MOSLEY: Yeah. So you would make people laugh, but you weren't the class clown. What kind of things would you do to make folks laugh? Do you remember?
KUDROW: Yeah. I imitated Lily Tomlin, Edith Ann, that character on "Laugh-In." Yes, I would do that. I'd go to slumber parties, and to me, it was like doing a show 'cause I'll do that and then I would lip sync songs and then have everyone do it. And I was like a cruise director.
MOSLEY: Is that where the seed came for you and acting? When did you really understand that, I like this - this attention?
KUDROW: Well, maybe it was attention because I was the youngest or - I don't know. But it made people happy and engaged and we were all doing something together. And, you know, I mean, my family was funny. My dad's hilarious, my brother and sister were really funny. So I would take their material, which was, you know, too mature for anyone else my age, but that made me kind of something.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
KUDROW: But it was so great to make people laugh. That was the best thing ever.
MOSLEY: You have talked a lot over the years about your dad and his work. He studied cluster headaches and he founded the first private headache clinic in the western part of the United States. A lot of what he founded back then is still part of standard treatment today, but when you were a little girl, did you have an understanding of it from the start?
KUDROW: Yeah. He was an internist, and then in 1971 he switched to just treating and researching headache. So I was 8, so, yeah, I was old enough to understand what he was doing. And as I got older, also - you know, 'cause he lectured all over the world about headache, and so he would write his lecture and do it to me because he wanted to make sure it was all understandable. So I'm maybe, like, 13, 15. You know, I don't remember how old. He proposed a hypothesis for, you know, the potential mechanism of cluster headache, and so he wanted to make sure I could fully understand it.
MOSLEY: 'Cause if you understood it, then...
KUDROW: Then...
MOSLEY: A crowd of folks who - yeah.
KUDROW: ...Neurologists will definitely understand it.
(LAUGHTER)
KUDROW: And I remember him saying to me, you have to understand that right now, you are one of the few people on the planet who understands more about headache from listening to all my talks than a lot of doctors.
MOSLEY: You went on to Vassar, studied biology, initially thought you were going to be a doctor.
KUDROW: Right.
MOSLEY: But you still had this little bit of something in you that loved acting, that felt like you still wanted to kind of do that thing. But you still graduated with a degree in biology.
KUDROW: Yeah. I didn't still love acting...
MOSLEY: Oh, you didn't? Yeah.
KUDROW: ...In college. High school and college, it was, absolutely never. And in...
MOSLEY: Oh, what - why did that change for you?
KUDROW: Because I thought, all right, now you have to be an adult. Like, that's a fun thing, but that's - you know, I've seen actors on TV and, you know, I've heard about all their divorces...
MOSLEY: (Laughter)
KUDROW: ...You know? And I thought, that's not the adult you want to be. OK. And in college, I just - I fell in love with biology and thought, yeah, yeah, I want to be a doctor. And so when I went to college, yeah, I just pursued that - evolutionary biology. There was this new, controversial field (laughter) called sociobiology that the founder...
MOSLEY: Which was what? Yeah.
KUDROW: ...E.O. Wilson, and it was about the interaction between biology and the environment to produce behavior in all animals, including human beings. And the including human beings was controversial, which I didn't understand. Why? We're animals, too. So that was really exciting to me and fulfilling a sort of - you know, a creative need I had.
MOSLEY: What changed?
KUDROW: What changed was after I graduated, a couple things. I mean, there's a weird thing that I can't explain. You know, I'd come home from - on break and be driving around LA and I'd hear, you know, a commercial for a sitcom. And it just sounded like, well, that's a horse of a different color.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
KUDROW: Like, it was so broad, and it's not funny and...
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
KUDROW: ...But there's a laugh track. And I'd think...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: ...Oh, that's pushing it so - they're hitting it so hard. And then, ugh (ph), why don't they throw it away? Lisa, remember to throw it away when you do it. And then I'd think...
MOSLEY: That was just a thought that would come in your mind?
KUDROW: It'd come in my mind and I'd think...
MOSLEY: Wait. OK...
KUDROW: ...Why do I have to do that? I'm - that's not what I'm going to be doing. And the big motivation also, my brother's best friend is Jon Lovitz. I grew up with Jon Lovitz. I graduate from college, he gets on "Saturday Night Live." And, oh, it's not just this thing that happens to a magic few. And then I'm really feeling very strongly, you better do this now. You're only 22, and you have no responsibilities. It's a - it's, I imagine, a pretty selfish endeavor to pursue acting, and now's the time, and don't have any regrets later.
MOSLEY: Our guest today is Lisa Kudrow. She's nominated for two Emmy Awards for the final season of "The Comeback." We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF ALLEN TOUSSAINT'S "BIG CHIEF")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley and my guest today is Lisa Kudrow. She's nominated for two Emmys, for acting and for writing, for the final season of "The Comeback," the HBO comedy she cocreated with Michael Patrick King. Her credits run long, so here are just a few. "Web Therapy," the improvised comedy she cocreated, playing a therapist who conducts very short sessions online. "Who Do You Think You Are?" the genealogy series she executive produced for 11 seasons, and "Romy And Michele's High School Reunion." A sequel announced earlier this summer.
Lisa, one of the more fascinating parts of your career is your search for understanding your family's history. And your father's parents came from Belarus.
KUDROW: Right.
MOSLEY: And your grandmother told you a story at a very young age that stuck with you for a very long time. What did she share with you?
KUDROW: She was babysitting and I missed my parents. Or they were out of town and I missed them. And I said, don't you - all of a sudden, I remembered, oh, she's a person. When do you see your parents? And she said, I can't see my parents. My parents died a long time ago. I said, they - how? And she started crying. And she said, they were murdered. They were murdered by Hitler. And I was like, who? I think I was 6 or 7. And I didn't understand who that was.
MOSLEY: That was the first time you had really heard that.
KUDROW: Yeah.
MOSLEY: But it stuck with you for the rest of your life.
KUDROW: Yeah, because then my father explained, you know, the rest of the Holocaust or, you know, what happened there. Also, I think I was too young.
MOSLEY: To know and understand.
KUDROW: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: I think I was under 10. And I would watch - "World At War" was a documentary series. And there was one on the Holocaust, one episode. And I watched it. And that was rough. I didn't know children could ever be murdered. Like, no one would ever intentionally hurt - I thought children were always protected and safe. So that was eye-opening.
MOSLEY: Decades later, you're in Ireland shooting a movie. And you come across this British series that is a genealogy series, and it just captivates you. And so you brought that series here...
KUDROW: Yeah.
MOSLEY: ...The U.S. version. And your story was the very first story that you all did.
KUDROW: That we shot.
MOSLEY: That you shot, yeah.
KUDROW: Yeah. Yeah.
MOSLEY: I want to play a little from your episode. And it aired on NBC in March of 2010. And in it, you travel to Poland and to Belarus to uncover the fate of your great-grandmother who died in the Holocaust. And in this particular scene, you travel to the town where her family lived. And you walk around and remember your grandmother's description of the landscape. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?")
KUDROW: This is what I pictured. This is exactly what I pictured. It's unbelievable. I feel connected to the smile that would come across her face when she'd say it was so beautiful. And I'm so happy that she got to grow up here. And it's so pretty. And I'm also so happy that she got out and her sisters got out. And I'm sorry for everybody else. My grandmother learned from Yuri what happened here. It's a huge loss. It's her whole family. It's her mother, who she loved. And she'll never see her again. She could've at least dreamt about seeing her one day or coming back to visit and being able to, like, breathe in this air and be here again. And that's gone, too.
MOSLEY: That's my guest, Lisa Kudrow, in "Who Do You Think You Are?" What a trip to take. And...
KUDROW: Oh, yeah.
MOSLEY: That's a weighty moment, to stand on the land that you know that your family...
KUDROW: Yeah.
MOSLEY: ...Lived and breathed. And you found things that you weren't even prepared to know.
KUDROW: Right. That's right. But the thing that was heartbreaking to me is how beautiful, all open, you know, pastoral, you know? And she lived in a tenement in New York. Like, nothing went the way she thought it was going to.
MOSLEY: When she came here?
KUDROW: When she came here. Yeah. Like, sometimes had an onion for dinner. You know, it just was not what she thought it was going to be. Anyway, yeah, I thought I was going to look for Yuri, who was a cousin who I was told was hiding in the woods and witnessed everyone getting shot, because, yeah, the Nazis had these actions, these death squads that would murder people.
Anyway, so I was looking for Yuri and found out that his name wasn't Yuri. His name was Boleslaw. And I went to Poland looking for him thinking, I'm not going to find him, because we had heard that he died. You know, he was trying to pass as not Jewish in Poland. And Jews were getting killed after World War II in Poland still. So, you know, not going to find anything.
And I'm given a phone book. Like, OK, all right, that's his name. How old is this phone book? Really? I don't know if it's the same number. All right, I'll call. Someone answers, and I say, you know, I'm looking for Boleslaw. Yes, that's my grandfather. Oh, is he, how do I say, alive or dead?
MOSLEY: I know. Yeah, yeah.
KUDROW: Awkward. (Laughter) Here? He's like, yes, he's here, and you should come and see him. And then I just had this moment of, wouldn't it be great if he just married, had kids and nothing extraordinary happened but he got to just have a life?
MOSLEY: Yeah. Yeah.
KUDROW: And then he is alive. He did get married and managed to live a peaceful existence behind the iron curtain.
MOSLEY: And you got to tell your dad. And what a gift to your dad.
KUDROW: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I mean, they got to Skype or, you know...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: ...See each other again after so many years.
MOSLEY: Has that experience shifted the way you thought about yourself, you know, learning all of this history about yourself and your origins?
KUDROW: Yeah, there's different levels of things I learned about myself. But, I mean, the one thing that I learned was how important it was to bear witness, you know? As we were walking - and Tamara, who's the expert there, was explaining, yes, we're walking on the road. This is the road toward the vegetable pit where the executions happened. And I didn't realize, oh, we're going there? Like, I'm walking to their death. I hesitated. I stopped walking for a split second because I didn't want to go, and then realized, no, I got to keep going and also bear witness.
That's what this is about. This isn't about me and my feelings or even my family, exactly. It's about - you have to bear witness. There's still people who think this didn't happen.
MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, my guest is Lisa Kudrow, nominated for an Emmy for the final season of "The Comeback," which she cocreated and stars in. We'll be right back after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF THE INTERNET SONG, "ROLL (BURBANK FUNK)")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley, and my guest today is award-winning actor Lisa Kudrow. She's up for two Emmys for the final season of her HBO series "The Comeback." And she's currently shooting a sequel of "Romy And Michele's High School Reunion."
I want to transition to "Friends" with the few moments I have left with you. I'm sorry about the loss of Matthew Perry.
KUDROW: Thanks. Yeah.
MOSLEY: I know that you, for lots of different reasons, didn't watch the show. You started watching it after he passed away.
KUDROW: Yeah, because it was too much about me before. I didn't want to watch me. And then after Matthew passed away, there were so many - well, there's always a marathon anyway, so luckily, there was a marathon to watch. And I was so happy to see Matthew then, and so funny. And it was - yeah, it was a great way to sort of process...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: ...Him not being here, and then really enjoyed how much he made me laugh and then how much everybody...
MOSLEY: Made you laugh.
KUDROW: ...Made me laugh. And even myself from time to time.
MOSLEY: Yeah. What did you notice about yourself?
KUDROW: (Laughter) That sometimes, yeah, I was funny. I was good.
MOSLEY: Sometimes? Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
KUDROW: I was good. No, but, I mean, OK, for the most part, I enjoyed what I did. And then there were times where it's like, well, I mean, that - you should have your license taken away or - you know?
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
KUDROW: That's not - don't do that. What are you doing?
MOSLEY: Anything in particular that made you cringe?
KUDROW: (Impersonating Phoebe Buffay) He's her lobster. I have it locked, loaded. It's ready to go.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
KUDROW: (Impersonating Phoebe Buffay) Eh, playing with a voice. Yeah. Uh-uh.
MOSLEY: (Laughter) What about you singing, you know? What about your songs and your guitars?
KUDROW: I love those songs.
MOSLEY: Yeah, yeah.
KUDROW: Those songs make me laugh.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: Those are really, really funny.
MOSLEY: I want to play a scene from the third season of "Friends." This is Phoebe and Ross - played by David Schwimmer - and as she explains to him, who's a paleontologist, that she doesn't buy evolution...
KUDROW: (Gasping).
MOSLEY: ...Or gravity. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "FRIENDS")
KUDROW: (As Phoebe Buffay) Well, that's fine. Go ahead and scoff. You know, there are a lot of things out there that I don't believe in, but that doesn't mean they're not true.
MATT LEBLANC: (As Joey Tribbiani) Such as?
KUDROW: (As Phoebe Buffay) Like crop circles or the Bermuda Triangle, or evolution.
DAVID SCHWIMMER: (As Ross Geller) Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHWIMMER: (As Ross Geller) What, you don't believe in evolution?
KUDROW: (As Phoebe Buffay) No, not really.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHWIMMER: (As Ross Geller) You don't believe in evolution?
KUDROW: (As Phoebe Buffay) I don't know. It's just, you know, monkeys, Darwin, you know, it's a nice story. I just think it's a little too easy.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHWIMMER: (As Ross Geller) Too easy? Too - (laughter) the process of every living thing on this planet evolving over millions of years from single-celled organisms is too easy?
KUDROW: (As Phoebe Buffay) Yeah. I just don't buy it.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHWIMMER: (As Ross Geller) Excuse me. Evolution is not for you to buy, Phoebe. Evolution is scientific fact, like the air we breathe, like gravity.
KUDROW: (As Phoebe Buffay) Oh, OK. Don't get me started on gravity.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHWIMMER: (As Ross Geller) You don't believe in gravity?
(LAUGHTER)
KUDROW: (As Phoebe Buffay) Well, it's not so much that, you know, like, I don't believe in it. You know, it's just - I don't know. Lately, I get the feeling that I'm not so much being pulled down as I am being pushed.
(LAUGHTER)
MOSLEY: (Laughter) She was ditzy but also deep. To play that combination of those two things together, I mean, it takes a very specific way that you were able to nail. There's also a lot of...
KUDROW: Yeah.
MOSLEY: There's the chemistry there. You can even hear it, even with us - without us watching it. Yeah.
KUDROW: Right. Oh, yeah. That was the best part of that part of my life. Everyone's so good. And, I mean, the trick is just, like - you know, at first, it was a lot of work being Phoebe, given my...
MOSLEY: In what way?
KUDROW: To be a person and justify what they're saying. So it sometimes took a lot of work. But by Season 3, you know, I was really nervous because I wasn't doing the work anymore. And I felt like, I don't think this is - is this the character, even? I don't know what I'm doing. Like, when we came back from hiatus. And LeBlanc had said, what's the...
MOSLEY: Matt LeBlanc, yeah.
KUDROW: Matt LeBlanc said, what's going on? And I said, I'm not doing the work. I'm not being Phoebe. And he said, no, you have her down.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
KUDROW: That's why you're not working as hard 'cause she's in you. You got it. And I went, oh, OK.
MOSLEY: I can imagine getting a role like "Friends," it's a role of a lifetime because it's one of those roles where the show itself becomes a part of Americana. And so you're always connected to that. So that - there's the blessing part of it.
KUDROW: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Did you ever have another relationship with it, though - the constantly being called Phoebe, being referenced, people coming up to you, probably, just saying lines and wanting you to repeat those lines, stuff like that?
KUDROW: Well, my first response is always I have zero complaints about "Friends" or anything to do with it 'cause every part of it was - just the relationship with the other actors - we had fun. That is so rare. And real, honest respect, mutual respect. It was a really good relationship. That took some work. And we did the work, you know? It was great.
MOSLEY: Well, part of it is you all spent 16, 20 hours a day with each other.
KUDROW: Right. Especially in the beginning, where it's, you know. But we made sure we did. We played poker together while we're waiting for the run through, or while - you know, any downtime, we spent that time together on set. And Jimmy Burrows helped, also. And, you know, we just lost him, so that's heartbreaking. But Jimmy Burrows is a legendary director and creator. He did "Cheers." And before that, his first job was "The Mary Tyler Moore Show."
MOSLEY: Iconic.
KUDROW: And then directed some - "The Bob Newhart Show."
MOSLEY: Yup.
KUDROW: No - and "Will & Grace." He did every one of them. So he did the first 10 episodes of "Friends." He did the pilot and the first 10 episodes. And, you know, it was his idea that Warner Bros. give him the Warner Bros. jet, private jet, and he flew us to Las Vegas. Just us. No boyfriends, girlfriends. None of us were married yet. Showed us the first episode on the plane, on the way to Las Vegas, and gave us each $200 to gamble with, which was so thrilling and then made us stop gambling to go eat, which is always irritating to me. But anyway...
(LAUGHTER)
KUDROW: No. And he took us to Spago and said, pay attention. This is the last time the six of you can be out in public like this and not be recognized. And I remember everyone going, (gasping). And I thought, maybe.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
KUDROW: I don't know. I mean, how does he know?
MOSLEY: Right.
KUDROW: Well, how does he know? 'Cause he's been around, and he knows...
MOSLEY: He knows when he has a success.
KUDROW: ...What's going to work. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway. But yeah, everything about it was great. But sometimes people will stop me and say, oh, sing "Smelly Cat." I don't want to do that. I really don't want to do that.
MOSLEY: Right, right. Your son, you were pregnant with him the last season of "Friends." And he's now on "The Comeback." And you all filmed "The Comeback" on the same sound stage that you all filmed "Friends."
KUDROW: That's right.
MOSLEY: Are you sentimental like this?
KUDROW: I didn't have a choice but to be sentimental...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
KUDROW: ...About all of that.
MOSLEY: Yes.
KUDROW: And at times, it was a little overwhelming. I mean, we're wrapping up "The Comeback" and Valerie Cherish in the same space where, along with the "Friends" cast, we said goodbye to that experience. So that was a lot. And my son is there...
MOSLEY: Yes.
KUDROW: ...On top of it. It's the first time he's acting in a union anything. And he was great, too. I have to say, I was really proud of him. And in that same space.
MOSLEY: Yeah. Well, I can't wait to see what Romy and Michele is about, this next...
KUDROW: Oh, yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah. You guys shot it already?
KUDROW: Yeah, we're done.
MOSLEY: You're done?
KUDROW: Oh, I know what it's about (laughter).
MOSLEY: I can't wait for it. Oh, my gosh. Can you give us anything about it?
KUDROW: Well, you know, Michele's always just happy. And they get invited to a wedding and Romy decides, oh, no, we forgot to get married. We should have found love. Maybe we're not lovable. So that's what sets us off on the journey. That is Romy and Michele II.
MOSLEY: OK, that's a good tease.
KUDROW: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Lisa Kudrow, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much.
KUDROW: Thank you. This was really fun.
MOSLEY: Award-winning actor Lisa Kudrow. She's nominated for two Emmys for the final season of the HBO series "The Comeback," and she just finished shooting a sequel to the 1997 film "Romy and Michele's High School Reunion."
After a short break, critic at large John Powers reviews the Paramount+ series "Diarra From Detroit." This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF TAB SMITH'S "HURRICANE T") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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