SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Gus Van Sant's new film takes us back to a true story from the 1970s that echoes into today. February 8, 1977, an Indianapolis man named Tony Kiritsis takes Dick Hall hostage. Now Hall is a broker at the mortgage company that holds Dick - Kiritsis' loan for a parcel of land. Kiritsis ties a wire from the trigger of his sawed-off shotgun to Dick Hall's neck.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "DEAD MAN'S WIRE")
DACRE MONTGOMERY: (As Dick Hall) Tony, what is this?
BILL SKARSGARD: (As Tony Kiritsis) This here, Dick, is a dead man's wire if you faint, stumble or try to run. There it is. There it is. Look, this will blow your head off.
MONTGOMERY: (As Dick Hall) Now, listen, Tony, no one's seen us. OK? You've made your point.
SKARSGARD: (As Tony Kiritsis) I'm just getting started.
SIMON: The crime would become a 63-hour standoff that captured local and national attention and has been the subject of a documentary and a podcast. "Dead Man's Wire" stars Bill Skarsgard, Dacre Montgomery, Cary Elwes, Colman Domingo and Al Pacino. It is the latest film from the esteemed director Gus Van Sant, who joins us now. Thanks so much for being with us.
GUS VAN SANT: Thank you, Scott.
SIMON: What drew you into telling the story today?
VAN SANT: A friend of mine was intent on making it. He had found the original writer of the film had seen a documentary about the incident and was compelled to do it because of its intensity.
SIMON: And why is Tony Kiritsis so upset about his mortgage?
VAN SANT: He's very close to the mortgage vendors, and the head of the company, M.L., was treating him very well. And I think he was missing some payments that M.L. wasn't happy with, and that made Tony feel like M.L. Hall had maybe ulterior motives to maybe develop the project himself.
SIMON: M.L. Hall, who was Dick Hall's father and chairman of the mortgage company, vacationing in Florida at the time of the kidnapping - by the way, played by Al Pacino. What keeps him from just offering an apology and promising a loan?
VAN SANT: That was one of the main questions of the story. And in our story, he's saying that it's because the police are listening and they're recording it, and he can't admit any wrongdoing because it was going to end up in court.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "DEAD MAN'S WIRE")
SKARSGARD: (As Dick Hall) OK, Dad. So Tony's here with me. And if you wanted to take a moment to apologize, I think it would go a long way, you know, and possibly expedite this release process. So if you wanted to do that, then it might be a great idea.
AL PACINO: (As M.L. Hall) Apologize for what exactly, Rich?
SKARSGARD: (As Dick Hall) Well, you know, possibly setting up a deal that wasn't in his interest.
PACINO: (As M.L. Hall) Apologize for how it just works?
VAN SANT: So he wouldn't say that he was sorry.
SIMON: In your telling, Tony gets a popular radio DJ named Fred Temple, played by Colman Domingo, directly involved in the drama.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "DEAD MAN'S WIRE")
COLMAN DOMINGO: (As Fred Temple) Hello.
SKARSGARD: (As Tony Kiritsis) Hello. Hello. Hi.
DOMINGO: (As Fred Temple) Hello, Mr. Kiritsis. This is Fred Temple.
SKARSGARD: (As Tony Kiritsis) Hi, Fred. It's an honor, Fred. Long-time listener, first-time caller (laughter).
DOMINGO: (As Fred Temple) Yeah. I hear you wanted to speak with me.
SIMON: We'll just note that in the real case, Fred Hickman, who was the news director of a local station, was actually the character. But what does Tony Kiritsis see or hear or find in this local DJ?
VAN SANT: He is a fan of Fred Temple, but I don't think he was expecting sort of the elation that he felt by hearing himself on the radio.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "DEAD MAN'S WIRE")
SKARSGARD: (As Tony Kiritsis) This morning has been crazy, man. They aired my interview with Fred. Fred's on my side, and the people are listening.
VAN SANT: Tony, hearing his own voice and his own philosophies broadcast on the radio sort of made him weak-kneed, and, you know, and also depending more and more on Fred Temple.
SIMON: It does introduce the fact that the media becomes another character. What do you think happened, and what should we take from that today?
VAN SANT: It's an early example of a lot of media coverage from local stations that descended on the apartment building where Tony was holding his hostage to the point where Tony was eventually asking for all media to record him making a statement at the end of the three days. And he requested ABC, CBS and NBC to broadcast his statement live in an afternoon, a particular afternoon.
SIMON: I mean...
VAN SANT: And...
SIMON: ...You say request, but it's request or else, right? That was the implication.
VAN SANT: Yeah, request. One of his requests, or there might be trouble.
SIMON: Of course, this actually happened in 1977, so I don't give away any plot twist to note that Tony Kiritsis was found not guilty by reason of insanity. I got to tell you, I found myself seeing this whole story close up in your film, angry about that. Tony Kiritsis carried out a deliberate, planned and prolonged act of violence.
VAN SANT: Yeah, that was an odd verdict. And I think that type of insanity verdict is a lot harder to come by. It's not the same as it was in the '70s.
SIMON: They changed the law, apparently, I learned by reading up about your film.
VAN SANT: Yeah. They've changed it. Yeah.
SIMON: Were there times making this film that you said to yourself, how could this have happened?
VAN SANT: I think the thing that makes it kind of the most astounding was that nobody had, like, rescued Richard Hall, that they were walking all through town, I guess, because of the rig, but they just - they sort of left them alone, which I think was astounding.
SIMON: Gus Van Sant, his new film, "Dead Man's Wire," is in theaters now. Thanks so much for being with us.
VAN SANT: Thank you very much, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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