WSHU: Patricia McCormick, a two-time National Book Award finalist, is the author of several critically acclaimed novels, including Sold, which has the infamous distinction of having won a particular award from The American Library Association, so Patty, welcome. Tell us about this infamous award.
Patrici McCormick: Thanks, Joan. Thanks for the opportunity to talk about this. Sold is the number one most banned book in the United States of America. This, according to the American Library Association, and they keep a tab on all the challenges that are mounted. School libraries, public libraries, most of the challenges are brought by Moms for Liberty.
WSHU: And by the way, are they moms?
PM: You know that is a million-dollar question. They use that moniker, but many of them are not moms, are not parents. They are people who have an agenda to curb the right to read.
WSHU: And we're talking, Patty, about keeping the books out of public libraries and public schools. What about the private institutions?
PM: You know, Joan, that's not something I know much about, and I would guess that they are governed by a different set of standards. One example I can give you, though, is the Fairhope Public Library in Alabama. Sweet little library. They received word from the Alabama library's supervisor. I forget what his exact title is. That they had to get rid of the book or lose their state funding, which is some $40,000 a year, a big part of their budget. They said no, and they lost that funding. And what was amazing was, as soon as this got notice, people from all over the country contributed money to make up that deficit. Now that's going to have to happen every year from here on out.
WSHU: I gather from looking online that the banned books are greatest in Florida, Texas, and Tennessee. So we're talking about, without getting overtly political, a particular part of the country. And I want to engage you in why this region and that organization became the center of banning books, and we should also add, because I want you to comment on this, that Sold has been sold as a YA book, Young Adult, and this complicates and in many ways makes more significant the banning. You're on why. is YA a particular concern for banned books?
PM: Well, I think we're always concerned about what our young people are reading, and I think legitimate concerns can be raised about what do we want to expose our kids to and when. That is why publishers and my publisher is, you know a highly respected one. Did a lot of vetting on this book. They put age limit suggestions, I suppose you should say, in the front of the book. What people are saying when they complain about this book is that it's pornography. And of course we don't want kids exposed to pornography. But this book is about child trafficking. By necessity, it includes a scene where a young girl is sexually assaulted. You can't have this book and this story without having that moment. It is written, however, from the point of view of a 13-year-old girl. She doesn't use graphic language or pornography. She talks about her confusion, her bewilderment, her physical pain. So to say that that is pornography is offensive on so many levels. One is, I did research in the brothels of Calcutta. Women told me about their experiences being assaulted. They didn't do it to titillate or to create a pornographic rendering. They did it to help solve this problem. It's also offensive because there's a way in which these people are saying, if you think that the depiction of an adult sexualizing a child against her will is pornography, then I think you are actually sexually exploiting children by that kind of interpretation of this work. J
WSHU: The category of YA has changed. Throughout the years, typically, it was addressing a potential readership ages 12 to. 18,. But now the line has extended to 24, and in fact, a new category has come in alongside YA, NA New Adults 18 to 24. And here is the bulk of the readership. As it turns out, not only an older adolescent group, but a group particularly made up of women-I should say, girls. How is that affected by the banned books that women who are the subject of abuse are also the largest readers of this book and other books in that age category.
PM: I think the categories matter less. And I just want to go on the record as saying I don't want this book read in middle schools. It's not appropriate for middle schoolers. I want it read in high schools and colleges where it is in the curriculum and has been for 20 years. Why is it there? For a variety of reasons. But why I want it there is this is the very demographic who A - is being targeted by traffickers and they need to know about the world as it is. And B - this is the group that wants to know. They want to be activists. They want to change the world. If we shield them from these opportunities to learn, A - we're leaving them unprotected, and B - we are short circuiting their opportunity to be good citizens.
WSHU: How do you advise librarians and teachers who may be or are already affected by the banning. What can they do? In one sense, what they've already done is marvelous. It's establishing banned books week, where some libraries are absolutely in your face about it, and have signs up: This is banned books time. Here they are. Read them. But what do you advise in general that librarians and teachers who are fearful of their jobs, of loss of funding to their institutions, what can they do now?
PM: Really good point. They are the ones who are on the front line here. I've talked to so many librarians and teachers who said they're afraid to stock the book. Many, many more who are doing it no matter what, and not just in you know, Tennessee and Texas and Florida, all over the country. They are under siege.
WSHU: Well, what more can we do during, let's say, the concentration on banned books week? Should there be special programs? Should the media be involved? How do we extend this concern, this intrusion, actually, and this insult not only to authors but to the subjects themselves,
PM: To the subjects and to the kids who want to read these.
WSHU: Absolutely, yeah.
PM: How? What do we do? We've got to support our librarians more, and we've got to understand what a dangerous situation they are in in their communities. We also need to fund our libraries, and we need to read. The amazing thing is that reading is a very private act of resistance. Nobody needs to know you're doing it.
WSHU: That's a good point. And how do we get more youngsters who are boys, young men to read. S
PM: That's been fascinating. I've taken this book all over the country to high schools and colleges, juvenile detention facilities. Boys are stunned when they read this book. I keep thinking, “oh, they're going to giggle. Oh, they're going to you know have that kind of bro culture response to the abuse of women”, they really don't. They are stunned into silence. They talk about, well, if this happened to my little sister, this happened to my girlfriend. They are outraged. So I think it's simply a question of putting the book in front of them. If they don't have the book, they don't get this opportunity. So I guess it's a you know full circle kind of argument.
WSHU: Right. One of the more difficult takeaways is that the abuse that you have followed, particularly in other countries, happens in areas that are incredibly poor and where the press for money is extreme. I have reviewed the book, and in one passage, the young girl says, "You know, why are you to her mother remarrying and in effect such a horrible man?” And the culture is: it's better to marry a horrible man than not to marry. At all, how do you affect change in those areas? As I said, where the economic forces are so complex and driving and deep seated,
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PM: Poverty is what drives this. Poverty and deprivation. What can we do? We can alleviate poverty, and we can raise literacy. Once we do that, once we arm women, in particular, with the means to be economically self-sufficient, this is less likely to happen. Once we raise the living standard for men in poverty, they are less likely to have to go to sex for sale. A lot of the men in the brothels, and I'm not talking about the guys who are with young girls, but men who just go to brothels in these other parts of the world are often paid so little they'll never have a wife, they'll never have a family. So that's why they're there. So anything that we can do to alleviate poverty and raise literacy and job skills for everybody is is going to be helpful, but I want to just add one last thing, Joan, and that is that trafficking happens in the United States.
WSHU: It sure it does. Please tell us a little bit about that, and if you've heard from any girls who have read your book,
PM: Tons! I get so many emails from girls who were trafficked, and it's not like it happens in the Liam Neeson movies where some cute girl is standing at the airport and she gets nabbed. What happens is kids who run away probably are often already abused at home. But let's just say, kids who run away, the FBI says that you are likely to be approached by a predator within the first 24 to 48 hours. That predator isn't going to look like a greasy old man in a raincoat. It's going to be a girl your age. It's going to be a boy who's cute and attractive who meets this girl at the bus station or at some place where she's washed up cold and hungry and says, "Hey, do you want a slice of pizza? Do you want a sweater? You want to come back to my house? They are traffickers, and it's intentional.
WSHU: Well, this is depressing, but in light of my question and your answers before about what we can do, one of the things we can do is spread the word, as cliched as it sounds. Congratulations on your book. Congratulations on standing by the enormous research that went into it, and for the passion that encourages us all to support banned books, to support libraries, to support schools. Thank you so much, Patty. S
PM: Joan, thank you for bringing attention to the topic.
