The United States is often portrayed as a very religious nation, and perhaps with good reason: two-thirds of Americans say they believe in God. But an increasing number of Americans say they’re atheists.
According to the Pew Research Center, 3.1 percent of American adults say they are atheists when asked about their religious identity, up from 1.6 percent in a similarly large survey in 2007. The movement is bouyed by high-profile figures like Richard Dawkins and the late Christopher Hitchens — people who have described religion not merely as wrong, but as a force for evil.
Meanwhile, one in four Americans finds themselves in between these two camps: about a quarter of Americans call themselves spiritual but not religious.
Lesley Hazleton is the author of “Agnostic: A Spirited Manifesto.” The book talks about embracing doubt and living in the middle of these culture wars. Hazleton spoke with WSHU’s Bill Buchner from her houseboat in Seattle.
Below is a transcript of their conversation:
BILL: Let’s talk about terminology for a second. You have agnostics, you have atheists — what’s the difference?
(both laugh)
Is that a loaded question?
LESLEY: Yes it is! And you use the phrase in your introduction, 'in between.' My whole point is that this is a totally artificially created spectrum. All the magnificent and unanswerable questions of existence, people tend to reduce them to a mere yes or no, for or against, belief, unbelief. And what I’m saying is, no way! I want to leave that flat, miserably literal debate about belief on the ground where it belongs — and I want to take off. And I think more and more people — the polls actually agree with this — more and more people are just refusing to categorize themselves anymore, to be categorized by the pollsters as either or, religious or non-religious, believers or nonbelievers. These are far too simplistic ways to think about wonderful, magnificent intangibles.
BILL: You talk about agnosticism and doubt as a rejection of fundamentalism, both from religious people and non-believers. We know examples of religious fundamentalism — terrorist attacks from ISIS in Brussels and Beirut, or the Christian [massacre at] a Sikh temple in 2012 [in Oak Creek, Wisconsin]. What does atheist fundamentalism look like?
LESLEY: It’s equally dogmatic in its way. Listen: Christopher Hitchens [the reporter and famous atheist writer, who died in 2011] was great fun. But not nearly as logical as apparently he thought he was. When he argued that, you can definitely point, as he did, to all the evil done in the world done in the name of religion. Done in the past. And still ongoing, as you pointed out. But to then argue that 'religion itself is evil' is deeply illogical. You know, I can point to all the evil done in the name of love. You know? Love of country, which Mencken called the last refuge of scoundrels; patriotism; love of children, which is the pedophile’s excuse. Romantic love, as in, 'I killed her because I loved her so much.' I can point to all these examples of love and many more and say, well, love itself is evil. But of course that’s an absurd argument. It’s totally illogical.
BILL: This is a fascinating topic you’re writing about, and I wish you luck with your personal journey into the vast unknown.
LESLEY: It’s not a “journey into.” I’m not aiming to arrive anywhere. I don’t want to arrive — I just want to keep on going.
Hazleton will be discussing her book with the Yale Humanist Community in New Haven on Thursday, April 7.